Matt & Ben have coffee part 2

M: OK moving on.... "Like You Do" sounds deceptively simple at first - like a basic rock blues riff but it goes off somewhat unexpectedly in the lead-in to the chorus - was this something that came natural to you in the writing or did you go through a lot of trial and error in getting it to sound right?

B: I like that part - it actually came easily to me when I was writing it chord-wise, but the lyrics took longer. But back to the blues riff, you know something weird, when I was learning guitar I would go into this guitar shop to play some amps. I was really young and this guy was playing just a blues vamp, the same as the first few notes of that song, and I was totally captivated, bum bum bum... I was standing in the middle of the music shop transfixed. I looked at his fingers to try to learn from sight what he was doing, and I STILL LOVE the sound of just the simplest blues chords...but I HATE the blues.

M: Right well you use that standard blues riff as a sort of springboard - you abandon it pretty quickly and that's where the song gets interesting. One thing that really sticks out to me with "Like You Do" is the production - the song sounds really amazing as it swells up to the chorus.

B: Two words, no three...Caleb "KBC" Sherman - he produced it.

M: You guys have quite a history together as performers from the "What's Up" band and as musical collaborators afterwards. What exactly is his role in producing a song like "Like You Do?"

B: I gave him "Like You Do" with NOTHING - just the chords and no vocals. He gave it back to me LIKE THAT! It's scary...he should be the stalker!

M: So you didn't really play any of the instruments on that song?

B: Nada. Nothing. Nil. Netay.

M: Wow, how very Monkees of you.

B: I excel at taking undeserved credit. But that build-up to the chorus, in the video you have that shot panning up to all the photographs on the wall - truly a moment. What was your inspiration there?

M: My inspiration was basically "wouldn't that look cool?" I don't think I was consciously lifting anything out of a specific film or anything like that. Really, the inspiration, in this case, would be the music - it has a wonderfully demented build-up right there. I thought that would be wicked to kind of mirror the dementia of the music with a simultaneous reveal of the frightening extent of your character's obsession. Can you tell me what the song is really about?

B: Russ Irwin! Russ was a member of the semi-legendary underground comedy troupe Whats Up with me and Jason Paige. Now he's playing keys with Aerosmith. He went on to fame and fortune as I collapsed in the corner. So you have the makings of a pop song right there: jealousy, regret, envy. He goes everywhere, tours all over the world making bank, as I read online tutorials about how to legally rob banks...so I tried to make the song about hanging out with him, but as three people: me, him and my jealousy.

M: Are you still jealous of his success?

B: I'm positively livid! No, I was upset when he left the show...but he was absolutely right to join Aerosmith of course! But I am that single minded - I was like what about the public access show! I realized i was being childish and the song really taps into that childlike sort of world revolves around me, i don't think I'm that envious now though...10 years later...his life probably has just as many plusses and minusses as mine....THAT MOTHERFUCKER!

M: Well to me the video, if not the song, is about self-obsession as much as it is about your preoccupation with the subject. That’s why it translated well into this idea of you stalking yourself. Did you realize that the whole idea of this video was to mock you and your self-importance as an artist?

B: Sorry to say that I've lost all feelings of self-importance a long long time ago, I've gone from wanting to take over the world to wanting to take out the trash...c'mon Matt admit it, you're jealous of my awesome talent!

M: Well I remember recording the RAWK! album with GTB and having to concede that you could play that one guitar riff in "latch key kids" better than me - but I don't know if I was jealous really. More frustrated with the limits of my abilities.

B: I'll take that as a simmering pool of unxpressed envy. We'll use that for the NEXT video, but with "Like You Do"...did you storyboard that video out?

M: I didn't write out a shotlist or phsyically draw storyboards - it only leads to humiliation and mockery when people see my ragged stick figures and ask "what the hell is that?" But it was mentally storyboarded - I had nearly every shot and edit worked out beforehand, especially in the first half and that happens from listening to the song over and over again, envisioning the video as the song plays out. That's a very exciting time for me because there's no limits at that point - only what your mind can conjure.

B: Did you run into any major problems during shooting aside from needing a better looking star?

M: Hell no, Ben - I like the way you look - I'd much rather work with someone who has interesting features than just another pretty face.

B: Oh fuck off!

M: The biggest problem with the "Like You Do" shoot was the limited time we had to do it. We did all three videos over a 4 day weekend in September and "Like You Do" was the last video we shot and so it was foolishly relegated to one day of production.

B: Right. Three days of the condor. What would you change if you could?

M: Well I just think a lot of shots are below my standard of what passes for good. The end product and the video that was in my mind were two different things. The video we ended up with isn't bad, it's just compromised. And this is very much due to the fact that we were cramming everything in to one day - we had to keep things moving forward so my standard was lowered from "that's good" to "that's good enough."

B: Sure but I think everyone thinks that...John Carpenter probably still doesn't like that looney bin parking lot shot in Halloween either.

M: So back to writing about your jealousy, did this translate to you at all when making the video?

B: Well sure, I mean putting a visual to an abstract feeling in a song is always settling on a particular choice and I thought this choice - stalking myself - was a bold and interesting choice so i thought it was going to be fun to see what we ...WE came up with. I still don't think anyone watching the video will really follow it like a linear story which is fine. It's like all those videos we used to watch at the beginning of MTV that they spent so much time trying to make a story and basically kids just kinda glazed over and bopped along oblivious.

M: I like story-driven music videos - they're much more interesting to me than "let's shoot the band playing in 10 different locations and cut it together." Blah.

B: During the shoot, I saw a different side of you - you were relaxed and precise with things. I'd like to see you directing much more, actual TIME doing thing after thing. You were in the zone.

M: Well thanks for that, though I’m of the opinion that if it’s a good shoot and the director is being clear with his vision and the actors are comfortable and doing good work, then there has to be a good crew supporting the whole endeavor. This shoot was definitely a success because of the people who were supporting the project by volunteering their time to do it.

B: How crucial was Bowls MacLean?

M: Oh absolutely crucial! And not just because he was lending us his VX100-B camera to the cause. I think his presence definitely helped keep me relaxed because of our own history from working together. There wasn't any tiptoeing around our egos when it came time to do the thing, which makes everything flow much better. And Bowls is hilarious - he has a gift for saying funny shit... just a fun presence on the set. It was great having Anthony "Zonalpony" Lopez shoot those picts of you dressed up as "Lee Ann" for the "Like You Do" video, too. It's really cool to have all of these friends' various talents come together like that.

B: You need more things to direct, check out fuckben.com for more songs!

M: It seems there's a disparity between what these songs were about or where you were mentally when you wrote them - do you feel that now when watching the videos?

B: Not really...whenever you draw something in the sand, through a song or a video, you know all those thoughts or feelings are going to change, except with anti-Bush songs! Feelings are fleeting, get em down and move on...so what are you going to do now?

M: I don't have anything in the queue production-wise - just trying to get more people to see the stuff that's already done like Family Tie and the stalker trilogy. But I'm working on a feature length horror film screenplay which has been getting kicked around the noggin for a few years now, so hopefully that will take some shape in the months to come.

B: What's the film about?

M: It's about a bunch of 20-somehting adults living in Brooklyn who are getting murdered for other people's amusement - basically a post-modern slasher film for a hip young audience. It's a hipster bloodbath.

B: Well living in Greenpoint must be great for inspiration.

M: Yeah i'm in the thick of it. I'd love to try something non-violent, non-dark one of these days but you know, they say, "write what you know" and that kind of stuff never comes naturally to me. And what about yourself - what's next on your agenda?

B: Gotta play live more, probably do solo shows with a twist...recording an album with Caleb Sherman called "C The Deuce" about a white guy who has a 'race-change operation to launch a career in the entertainment industry, and I still have 10 songs on my hard drive that I'm calling a "new album." but in actuality I've been recording it for years.... It sucks to be constipated.

M: But it seems like you usually have a few things going on simultaneously - you let projects simmer so that the flavor is all the richer when it's ready to be served.

B: And i want to collaborate with you MATT!

M: You want to do everything like I do.

B: Ha.

M: Well, let's start with this new album - any good stalker material for me to run with?

B: Only if I’m stalking myself.